Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Creating a Poll for the first time - be gentle!
| Creating a Poll for the first time - be gentle! [message #215159] |
Sat, 20 July 2013 17:50  |
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Richard RV
Messages: 631
Registered: July 2012
Location: Full-timer for 12 years, ...
Karma: -17
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| GMC modification vs. preservation[ 24 votes ] |
| 1. |
Things come and go, as long as there are GMCs driving on the road, I'm fine with it. |
 3 / 13% |
| 2. |
Modifying and upgrading GMCs is necessary and fun. |
16 / 67% |
| 3. |
It makes me sad to see a GMC get parted out, and I'd like to see some totally original GMCs preserved and in museums. |
3 / 13% |
| 4. |
Not my coach, not my problem. |
0 / 0% |
| 5. |
I'm modifying my coach, but there should be preserved coaches in pristine condition somewhere people can see them. |
2 / 8% |
Where is the value of a GMC? Is it in the design and history, the drivability and using it, or somewhere else? Coaches are being upgraded at a great rate, there are projects that are started and never finished, others have fires or accidents, others are donor coaches or parted out. All of these take away a chance of preserving an original coach. Some are too far gone and there is no real chance that they'll be restored to drivability, much less restored to original showroom condition.
Do you feel this is a minor problem, the way of the world, a crying shame? Let's see if there is cause for concern. Please vote.
Thanks.
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemont waiting its turn
[Updated on: Sat, 20 July 2013 17:52] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Creating a Poll for the first time - be gentle! [message #215175 is a reply to message #215161] |
Sat, 20 July 2013 20:17  |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
Karma: 0
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I wouldn't say it's sad to see a coach parted out. Some things are beyond repair, and if parts can be used to keep others on the road, that's a good thing. I just bought a GMC that had a front end fire. The wiring and hoses are totally FUBAR and it has been sitting for 4 years, but is it worth the cost of restoration, or should its parts go to help others?
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
[Updated on: Sat, 20 July 2013 20:21] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: [GMCnet] Creating a Poll for the first time - be gentle! [message #215182 is a reply to message #215179] |
Sat, 20 July 2013 21:07 |
Otterwan
Messages: 946
Registered: July 2013
Location: Lynnwood (north of Seattl...
Karma: 0
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| A Hamilto wrote on Sat, 20 July 2013 18:57 |
They are only worth the cost of restoration for sentimental reasons. You will have to decide if you want to put more in it than it is ever going to be worth. Sort of like chemo for the family pet. Euthanasia is simpler, but is that "right"?
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That is best answered with a quote from Firefly:
Captain: "Catalyzer is a nothing part, Captain."
Mal: "It's nothing 'til you don't got one. Then it appears to be everything."
Our GMC's are made up of hundreds of "nothin' parts". That is, nothing' "'til you don't got one". Then you need a donor vehicle.
1977 Birchaven, Lynnwood WA - "We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us."
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| Re: Creating a Poll for the first time - be gentle! [message #215207 is a reply to message #215159] |
Sun, 21 July 2013 11:19 |
bryant374
Messages: 563
Registered: May 2004
Location: Pleasant Valley, NY 12569
Karma: 1
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Richard,
Although I voted (appears I'm in a minority group) no one catagory fits my thoughts. Here are a few of my thoughts (call them opinions or biases if you like):
First, I'm a traditionalist. What drew me to the GMC MotorHome was the original design, the inovation and the uniqueness. Many of us drove them for 100 or 200K miles and with proper maintenance had few if any reliability issues and a ton of good times.
That was then, this is now.
Forty years or so and many thousands of miles have passed. Some talented folks have designed some wonderful new gagets for us, I remember well when we had a choice of only ONE final drive ratio or ONE air bag design, etc. There now are many choices, the question in my mind is, after we make all those changes, when is it no longer REALLY the GMC MH we so admired?
So here is what I really think:
- We need an RV for reliable travel, change it to your needs for reliable and comfortable travel, enjoy!
- We need (maybe a couple/few) of GMC Motorhomes that are very nice originals to be preserved. There are very few presently in that state, likely decreasing rapidly. The example presently in the RV Museum in Elkhart has littly resembleance to an original GMC (in my opinion). We should be able to do better.
- we need to scrap for parts recovery poor examples of GMC motorhomes. Enticing some potential GMCer with a low price only to find the costs to rehab (properly) are significant and results in an unhappy experience. Likely the GMC is put back on the market only to repeat the cycle again. Get them off the market and into the parts pile.
- If only 50% of the coaches in the Registry were kept as operational, functional, useful coaches, it is unlikely demand would ever match supply. That over supply has driven prices down with little likelyhood of recovery. Scrapping the poor examples may help this problem some, for sure will help the parts availability.
Note: I have changed my opinion over the past several years. A number of years ago I would have been outraged at the thought of "destroying" a GMC. Times have changed, we have a glut of vehicles and not sufficient buyers. We should do everything we can to encourage new GMC MH ownership, I do.
Regards,
Bill Bryant
PO 1976~PB (owned 34 years)
1914 Ford (owned 70 years)
1965 Corvette (owned 39 years)
GMC Motorhome History
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| Re: Creating a Poll for the first time - be gentle! [message #215216 is a reply to message #215207] |
Sun, 21 July 2013 12:44 |
LarryInSanDiego
Messages: 336
Registered: September 2006
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All valid points above, as well as choices, depending on the individual. Think about it, many of us have done some sort of bringing back to life on some level a neglected car. Whether you maintain or re-create a 100 point '69 Z28 or turn grandma's 6 cylinder into a clone, we each have our own reasons that seem to fit our goals and re$ource$.
I recently acquired an '80 Camaro from the estate of a recently deceased friend that I'm considering turning into a Z28 clone. Why? I'm really not sure, but it probably has something to do with how it would look in my driveway? That's maybe one factor (I'm also an avid former autocrosser in the federal witness protection program, aka raising four kids). A plain Jane Camaro of that vintage might suggest redneck white trash to some, and it's not "me". But a Z28? That's more me because I'm a an uncurable gearhead. All other things being equal, the perception would likely change, even if the perception is "self" for lack of a better word.
Now, replace the plain Jane/Z28 comparison with motorhomes. I may be biased, but any half decent GMC looks sweet in the driveway. A SOB...meh.
Add edit: Just this morning, I met up with a recently "new" GMC'er to trade parts. We had breakfast at a Denny's at roughly the halfway point between us. We traded ideas as well as the parts, and AFAICT, we're both very happy with our trades.
When was the last time you felt that way by just purchasing parts? As if it wouldn't be obvious, I'm going with #2.
Larry Engelbrecht
San Diego, CA
'73 26' ex-Glacier
TZE063V100319 03/07/73
[Updated on: Sun, 21 July 2013 12:55] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Creating a Poll for the first time - be gentle! [message #215217 is a reply to message #215159] |
Sun, 21 July 2013 12:48 |
Joe Weir
Messages: 769
Registered: February 2013
Location: Columbia, SC
Karma: 7
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I have seen this argument in other enthusiast groups.
While some things were arguably built better 40 years ago (or more precisely parts were designed & built to be fixed, as opposed to replaced and trashed), technological advances in automobile design have occurred.
The only way to preserve something is not to use it. Seems that is the antithesis to what the GMC was about.
While your father's GMC had many safe and worry-free miles in 1977, it shared the road back then with vehicles which accelerated and stopped with much the same tempo. Horsepower, acceleration, and more importantly, deceleration is not what it was in 77. Even the lowliest econobox these days can post 0-60 times that would have been impressive in the malaise era. Modern cars are more maneuverable, and more importantly, many of their drivers are Dale Earnhardt wannabes, living out walter mitty style fantasies on the beltway, drafting and weaving at rush hour. If you are going to use your GMC, perhaps a better braking system would be beneficial.
Nothing that is used lasts forever without repair and replacement.
What is really curious is that I have observed that it is not the original coaches that bring big money, but those that have been completely renovated. I submit that the unrestored, unmolested coach is far more likely to be sold to someone who will use it to death.
I have seen a few coaches for sale around here that were "loved" by their owners and have had more than a few dollars invested, and the asking price reflects it. However, whatever renovations that had been done were thoroughly enjoyed by the owners and the coaches were in need of another restoration.
The current glut of coaches, if you can call it that, has more to do with the demographics of the market and the residual effects of the economic bubble.
There is no financial reward in restoring an old car. It is done for the love of the experience. Without that irrational commitment, we would not have the army of vintage vehicles that exist today. That said, some are good examples to be restored to original. Some are better off modified.
My coach was too far modified to bring it back to original (some here, I suspect, would have torched it at first sight, lest the demons that infested it escape...lol), so I have no guilt in modifying it. However there were many features of the Birchaven layout that were good ideas. I want to bring the interior up to date with modern conveniences and fix any quirks in the execution of the design that 36 years of use have shown to need improvement.
I think we need to appreciate both sides for what they contribute.
76 Birchaven - "Wicked Mistress" - New engine, trans, alum radiator, brakes, Sully airbags, fuel lines, seats, adult beverage center... those Coachmen guys were really thinking about us second hand owners by including that beverage center...
Columbia, SC.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Creating a Poll for the first time - be gentle! [message #215223 is a reply to message #215216] |
Sun, 21 July 2013 13:46 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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If it's a 68 with Z280 on the broadcast sheet, then go the whole hog with NOS where it exists. Past that, improve as necessary. An original Coca-Cola coach, go for it. Motorhome or Transmode, do with it as you wish. Just follow the Year One credo - don't crush 'em, restore 'em. Parting one out isn't crushing.
--johnny
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On Sun, 7/21/13, Larry Engelbrecht <lengelbrecht@sandi.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Creating a Poll for the first time - be gentle!
To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
Date: Sunday, July 21, 2013, 5:44 PM
All valid points above, as well as choices, depending on the
individual. Think about it, many of us have done some sort
of bringing back to life on some level a neglected car.
Whether you maintain or re-create a 100 point '69 Z28 or
turn grandma's 6 cylinder into a clone, we each have our own
reasons that seem to fit our goals and re$ource$.
I recently acquired an '80 Camaro from the estate of a
recently deceased friend that I'll considering turning into
a Z28 clone. Why? I'm really not sure, but it probably has
something to do with how it would look in my driveway?
That's maybe one factor (I'm also an avid former autocrosser
in the federal witness protection program, aka raising four
kids). A plain Jane Camaro of that vintage might suggest
redneck white trash to some, but a Z28? All other things
being equal, the perception would likely change, even if the
perception is "self" for lack of a better word.
Now, replace the plain Jane/Z28 comparison with motorhomes.
I may be biased, but any half decent GMC looks sweet in the
driveway. A a SOB...meh.
Originality to me is in the timeless overall design, so
whatever it takes to keep it functional and safe at a
reasonable cost, that's what I'm going with, and the
community, vendors, and forum are critically vital to making
that happen.
Regarding pristine originals, and this is wishful thinking,
it would be interesting to see several in various evolutions
and floor plans.
I'm going with #2, only because that's what works for me.
--
Larry Engelbrecht
'73 26' ex-Glacier
TZE063V100319 030773
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Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Creating a Poll for the first time - be gentle! [message #239100 is a reply to message #215223] |
Fri, 07 February 2014 15:29 |
mikethebike
Messages: 331
Registered: January 2014
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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I believe in the 'resto-mod' train of thought. If you can make something better for a reasonable outlay of cash and not make it so complicated you need a reincarnation of Smokey Yunick to fix it, and if it breaks down in the middle of the deseret you will not be able to find a part, then go for it.
But, under NO circumstance should you cut one up...you know...extended, widened, customized until it looks like a caricature of the real thing sort of stuff.
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